Treger Plastics Division managing director Nokubekezela Nyuke has spoken of how leadership is a lonely and humbling exercise.

Nyuke (NN) shared her journey as a business leader on the platform In Conversation with Trevor hosted by Alpha Media Holdings chairman Trevor Ncube (TN).

Below are excerpts from the interview.

TN: Noku welcome to In Conversation with Trevor.

 NN: Thank you very much Trevor, thank you for having me here.

 TN: So Noku as I was looking at your profile and reading around what you are doing, I found myself going to a conversation that I watched recently between Gail King who is a very close buddy of Oprah Winfrey Winfrey and Melinda French Gates talking about women and why it is that women don't want to discuss their age.

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Where do you fall on that conversation? Are you one of those people who doesn't mind discussing their age? How old are you?

 NN: Yeah.  I don't mind, I don't mind sharing my age. I'm actually one of those people who when my birthday is coming around, I start celebrating from the 1st of July. My birthday was this past weekend.

 TN: Happy birthday

 NN: That you very much. So I'm a fresh new age of 38.

I found out when I was just looking at jobs or job profiles and things like that when you are 25 for example, we look at the job that you think this is the job, the requirement is age 30 and above or when you look at a job and the level that you are at the age is either always too young or too small for the age where you currently are.

So you always kind of feel like is this age barrier — does it make sense and does it really have a bearing on what I could bring to this position or this platform, does my age really matter in that context?

So I think a lot of time women in particular will remove that age and also because for women, our journeys are so different.

You can get to a certain stage 10 years later than what is normal or you can get there quite early and someone will say but she is not even 40.

So that's why sometimes you want to bring age into the conversation after someone has met you and seen you.

So it really doesn't matter how old you are, it's about who you are and what you bring.

 TN: So there is a sense then that some people would get, would take a certain view on you because of your age is that what you are saying?

 NN: I think so.

TN: In this conversation that I looked at, that I watched rather, Melinda French Gates is turning 60 and she's very excited about turning 60.

Oprah Winfrey just turned 70 I think last year if not early this year and threw a big party and has made it everybody know that she's trending.

Gail King, who is Oprah's friend, also doesn't hide her age which is why I thought let's discuss this issue and by the way there's an episode where I asked somebody's age and people got so upset with me; why did you ask about age? That was so rude.

In your view, I mean you have shared where you come from but where does that reticence come from?

 NN: Yes I think so because you know you have heard terms used for women like shelf life, you know or she's an off layer or you know she's not good for the market anymore.

 So a lot of value in terms of women and the traditional roles they have been cast into is about their age, are you of child bearing age if you are 38, and don't have children? for example, you are not yet married or you are still in school.

So I think there is a lot of pressure to have done certain things by a certain age depending on whether you want to be a housewife, you are married, you want to have children or your work life.

So it puts a lot of pressure which I feel obviously is unnecessary because everybody's journey is going to be different and things are changing.

The expectation that by the age of 25 you should be married is gone, it's different now.

The fact that you should have children by 30 biologically may be more advantageous, but there are so many advancements.

People like Naomi Campbell are having children in their 50s. 

It's really evolving, but I think the initial reluctance is because there's just a certain expectation about a certain age of a woman and what they should be like or what they should have achieved by a certain age.

TN: Fantastic, you have achieved quite a lot in your 38 years and I want to ask you what have been the most significant moments of your life?

 NN: I think I have always been somebody who is very academic and loved school and doing well at school.

So one of the most significant moments in my life was when I didn't do well at school.

I was at Deloitte. I wrote my first qualifying exam the previous year.

We had written what was called the certificate in theory of accounting and I had come out in the top 10.

We wrote an exam in January and there were three of us who wrote and I failed that exam.

TN: What did that do to you?

NN: I was in tears. I thought you know the person I knew myself to be didn't exist anymore.

I felt worthless. I felt like everything I knew about myself was not true and it took a lot to go through that process because when you're in articles failing an exam means a lot of things.

First of all when you rewrite, you have to pay for it yourself so that means you are taking something out of your very small salary already and it affects your promotions and whether you move on in your growth, it also affects things like where you get seconded, the clients that you get and generally the mood in the office when you wrote and you were three and you are the only one who failed, it was such a difficult time for me and with that exam at that time you could only write it again a year later.

 So I had to go through a whole year of remembering that I didn't make it.

My counterpart moved on, they were in the top 10, they were going to America for secondment and I couldn't go anywhere because I had to rewrite that exam and I remember my mother asking me: ‘Can you not write it again?”

I thought that's not the point. But you know, it taught me that you are not infallible, and if you don't work hard you don't get the result. It's not automatic and you have to find it in you that you will fail sometimes in life, but that's not the end.

Success is really how you pick yourself up afterwards.

 It was such a huge mental battle to start studying again for the next year, but also I realized that if I didn't start in a good time, I was just going to fail again.

So, I had to really pick myself up and say to myself I want this. I have to try again and I can certainly do it .

 TN: What  kept you going in that season? 

NN: I think it was the fact that there were some before me who had gone the same path and they wrote again and they passed and it's not the end of the world.

I got a lot of support from my family, from my mom, from my dad and my then boyfriend who is now my husband, fortunately.

There was a lot of support and encouragement to say ‘look it's not the end of the world you can actually do it'.

 TN: You did it, you became a chartered accountant. Now I'm going to ask you, at 38 years you are the managing director of Treger’s Plastic division.

What have been the greatest achievements in your life right up to now. I mean 38 years you still have another 50 years plus to go.

 NN: I think there have been lots of great achievements along the way as I said. I think my growth and my progression professionally.

I was a physics and science person at school. I never did accounts.

I started doing it when I joined Deloitte and to have pivoted from the person I thought I was in high school to who I am today I think that's been one of my greatest achievements.

 TN:  Why did you do the pivot from physics to chemistry?

 NN: It's a funny story, that's my mom. When I did my A levels, I did four science subjects.

I came out with 19 points and  the conversations became ‘What do you want to do?’

 So to give context, I wrote my exams in 2004, 2005, 2006 we know how difficult it was.

TN: What school was it?

NN: I was at Dominican Convent for my A levels. So things in Zim were very difficult or starting to be very difficult at that time. I wanted to be an engineer.

I wanted to study aeronautical engineering. I actually got the place in Australia, but my parents said to me you can see the fees, there's just absolutely no way.

So what alternatives are there?

My father is a lecturer at the National University of Science and Technology (Nust).

 So obviously I could go to Nust and I actually did go and did one semester of electronic engineering because I wanted to be an engineer, but there were other careers that I'd never even considered because I told myself this is what I want to do.

So when my results came out, my parents and a friend of  my parents as well would take me around to see different people.

I remember we saw a pathologist.  I saw a father of a chartered accountant (CA). I saw a CA.

 I saw a doctor just for me to open up my mind to other possibilities particularly with what career options were available in Zimbabwe at the time and I then heard about the guys from Deloitte had come to Convent but as the science girls were like they're not talking to us.

But I went to Deloitte to just hear about it and get the requirements and I remember going home to my mom and saying ah that office is just too quiet, the lady didn't even look interested in me, I don't think they want me there.

My mother said just try, give it a shot,  so I applied to Deloitte. I went for the interview .

I remember when I went for the interview Trevor I saw all these young ladies and gentlemen in suits looking so smart.

The place was so quiet and calm and I thought okay let's see what the interview brings, but I still want to try engineering.

So I went to Nust for one semester just the contrast of those young people I had seen at Deloitte versus what our life was like at university and the fact that you know they were offering me a salary. They were going to pay my fees and the opportunities that come afterwards really it opened up my mind to something I had not given a chance.

TN: Fascinating isn't it?

 NN: Absolutely. so I said to my mom okay I'm doing this for you and she will always remind me of that every time I say I love my job. 

So I'm really grateful to her because I had no idea that this is the path that I could take and I was very grateful  for listening to my mom. It worked so well.

“In Conversation With Trevor” is a weekly show broadcast on YouTube.com//InConversationWithTrevor.  
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