Lawyer, creative and social change practitioner Chenesai Mukora-Mangoma says she believes law is the only instrument that can change a society.

Mukora-Mangoma (CM) spoke about the things that drive her when she appeared on the platform In Conversation with Trevor hosted by Alpha Media Holdings chairman Trevor Ncube (TN).

Below are excerpts from the interview.

TN: Chenesai Mukora-Mangoma welcome to In Conversation with Trevor.

CM: Thank you Mr Ncube.

TN: Wonderful to have you here. Chenesai I have been wanting to ask you this question; you are a lawyer, you are a creative, you are a social change practitioner, you are into agriculture education, you like walking and you like hiking.

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I see you playing golf with your two boys and I said to myself ‘what drives this woman?’

What drives this person, what drives you?

CM: It's people. It's investing time with people.

TN: So it's giving people your time, giving people your heart and it's a lot, but it's just people. I think people need time. Why are you doing that? 

CM: It’s  because people invested in me. I didn't just wake up and become Chenesasi.

I think from primary school I had an amazing Grade Seven teacher named (Miss Masowa).

If she's listening, she saw something in me and she taught me public speaking. I was a head girl at that point.

TN: Where was that?

CM:  At Hermann Gmeiner Primary School in Waterfalls and from there on I went to Monte Cassino Girls High, and in Monte Cassino, I had a geography teacher and he always pushed me beyond high school, college, university.

The people that have invested in me have always taught me that if I could spend just a fraction of the time they spent on me we could all change the world.

 So my energy in sharing, and thank God he made me a natural sharer, my energy in sharing is perhaps to just inspire,  to record these moments.

Whether you share them or not but keep your archives, invest time in people and that's the one thing that God actually put us here for isn't, to share with the world who we are.

So, yeah that's really what drove me because I had amazing investment in who I have become and who I am becoming so.

TN:  It's powerful what you have said. We are here to share with others but I will give it a slight slant which is,‘we are here to share that He is, that is God through what we do and I think if we do that then we change the world.

Is that your sense?

CM: Absolutely you know my first name is actually, Noreen, it’s Irish.

My second name is Chenesai and Chenesai means light, she who brings light.

 I think when you start living in the truth of who you are, and really soul searching why am I here, what am I really doing here and I think there are powerful names I remember when we were naming our sons.

We really took time to find the power that is going to be their path.

TN: So what names did you give them?

CM: Our first son is called Kundai Maita, the second one is called Kudzai, and interestingly my husband picks the first name.

We don't talk about it until the child is born.

And then the second name comes from me.

So it is in the power of names, the power of purpose of us looking really deeply and not just waking up into a routine , I'm going to work, oh I'm doing this, I'm doing school run, no.

TN: Why are you doing school runs?

CM: I take pride in that school run and I try to bring in different things into our routine for instance now we are in listening to books because I thought you know music.

They listen to music, they do music class at school but now we listen to books and they might not hear everything, but every now and then they will pick up something I will be like ‘that is working, that is working.

So it's the power of your presence and really digging within you to find out what are you here for and every day should be a mystery of sorts every day can't be the same because it's a God-given day.

 It’s a new day to shine differently because another person didn't make it today so that's the drive really.

TN: Wow !wow this is powerful I mean. As you are talking, you are taking me to places and I will tell you what I'm sensing.

This morning as I was driving to work I saw somebody getting off a commuter bus and they littered in front of me and that breaks my heart.

 I saw a young lady eating some chips or something and then throwing away the piece of paper afterwards.

 I stopped and said ‘pick it up.’

If we were all as purposeful and intentional this country would not be what it is right now. Is that the sense you get?

CM: We can't all be in every Paradigm, in every institution, in every happening.

There has to be leadership. It is for people that have to accept that they are given a little more so they should do a little more.

Not everybody would say, oh I don't think everyone needs to match everyone's energy, but everybody needs to walk their path.

So if your energy is to shine a light, and reveal for others what they might take for granted, then do it. You cannot then do it under a bush.

The Bible even says that you can't cover a good deed. So I think for everyone to accept this is who I am in the dynamic of everything.

This is my role. So if everyone plays their role then others will follow and even eventually overtake.

TN: Wow, talk to me about that. It’s beautiful to live a purposeful life and an intentional life. There's a place where it gets exhausting. Talk to me about that? 

CM: Self-care. I recently wrote an article for Divas Inc on self-care and it was lovely that they asked me to write about that because I'm a high energy person. 

I'm a giver and you need to find your resource tabs.

And for me, it is finding those places like playing golf that's my self-care and I selfishly do that.

I tap in, I play golf and on Sundays I can spend time at home doing absolutely nothing.

I can just lay in bed and just think. It's finding those routine things that allow you to tap in because you do need to refuel,but you can't stop going.

 You can't! You absolutely can't stop going I have been saying this for years now I think.

TN: You can't stop going, but the giving of yourself, the giving of your time, talk to me about that? That’s draining in a way?  Yes you then go and tap in, talk to me about the giving part of it?

CM: I used to think that it's draining until I realised I'm walking in my path.

If it's yours it won't drain you. For anyone else to walk that, it could be draining, but if this is what it is for you, it doesn't burden me you know.

I'm a 5 am, 5:00 a.m. club so 4:30 like clockwork,  I'm up. I do my readings.

I do my meditations. Recently I have been writing articles and I will write my article at about 5:30 amor so. I will post something inspirational.

I like to read from others, learn from others. So recently it's been a lot of Richard Green really. I like his local 48 Laws of Power. 

And the next thing, I'm making sure the kids are ready. We are doing our school run. It is in my purpose. It is in my path.

I'm not acting outside, who I am destined to be but remember it's every day.

So there are times now I think, what I am learning is to let go of other things.

When I have exerted my energy and I think we are now on the path I can say ‘you know what maybe this leadership role I won't take it anymore’ and somehow I find myself in the next role.

So that is my purpose to bring light, to clarify. I have worked and systemically with different classes of people and different genres of people.

Every time I walk into a space, a unique perspective on what needs to be done for us to grade it. I worked with a lot of teams, so working with people comes naturally.

I enjoy people.

TN: And what do you get from working with people, what do you get from giving pieces of yourself to people?

CM: Such a good question. I think that it is actually my fuel. When I see the growth, I thrive.

When I see people grow, I thrive. When I see people getting outside their comfort zone, it's so satisfying to my soul in a way that you might find it odd but it gives me such Joy. It gives me the kick.

TN: Should we go to I when we started? I said you are a lawyer, you are creative, you are a social change practitioner. Shall we start with the lawyer a bit: what made you do law? 

CM: When I went to law school at the University of Pretoria, I wanted to be a human rights lawyer.

TN: So you work at the Human Rights Centre?

CM: At the beautiful Centre you get exposed to all of the best human rights advocates in the world and I think, after a year or two, I was like  this might not be human rights.

This might not actually be the law that is for me because the more and more I was gleaning into commerce, I realised if people could understand how to make money, they can stand up for themselves.

Poverty has a funny way of keeping you in a cycle and in Shona we have a saying murombo harove chine guwu.

So yes, that push, that understanding that the law for me is the only instrument that can change society and I believe that the law is the only instrument that can change society and our understanding of the law allows anyone, a woman, a child, a father to take better care of their family, a woman to empower their children better.

So it is that understanding that once you teach people, once you understand people, when you go to the market, which I do quite often and I meet these women with their stores.

 I always ask ‘so something is wrong with you if you get sick, what's going to happen to your store?

TN: Let's talk about that

CM: Just to have someone thinking a little, the mundane task of saying if something happens what happens

TN: What do you think we should do? Let's think about this. Let's think about how do we  grow our money.

CM: So you can have a bigger supply and then you maybe try to think about hiring someone and also those ideas, but the exchange of ideas that are within the bounds of the law.

 It's just so powerful and it all starts with the law.
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